This is, in all honesty, the fourth time I've tried to write this article. Saved on my hard drive are two other false starts—the third resides at the bottom of the Recycle Bin somewhere—and none of the three are all that unsubstantial. I've tried four times to write an article that I don't really need to write. I admit that I got you readers involved and although I don't take that lightly, I somehow doubt that if I actually fail to write this article, there isn't going to be anyone showing up on my doorstep demanding that I turn out some ranty article on the BMW 8 Series.
But the thing is: here I am writing a fourth copy and it's specifically that reason that gives the article its shape. I'll explain.
The BMW 8 series is a fantastic car in a lot of ways. It's got classic lines, phenomenal performance, and is really everything I'd ever want in a GT car. BMW reportedly spent DM1,000,000,000 developing it (around €500,000,000) in the late 1980s and the result is something that's worth every penny. A new 850CSi cost over $100,000 in 1996 and a used example in good (but not excellent) condition can command between $55,000 and $70,000 today—easily as much as a Ferrari 348...which cost 30% more at the outset.
At the end of the development cycle in 1991 BMW had put so much engineering effort into the vehicle that it really was—and still is—a fantastic car in nearly every way. And it's a car for which I have no passion whatsoever.
It's sortof a tricky spot to be in—BMW produces automobiles which I respect immensely but their pièce de résistance leaves me completely uninspired. I desperately want to love this car—so much so that I'd start three different articles gushing about it before actually succumbing to the fact that I don't really even like it. The situation I'm in is a bit like buying season tickets to Lakers games but not rooting for Kobe Bryant. I want so much for the 8 series to be a beautiful example of everything that's right with automobiles, but there are so many things about it that leave a chalky taste in my mouth.
The first is the design. The 8 has the sort of elegant lines and curves that BMW has always liked to bank on—they have a timeless beauty that doesn't age like a 1982 Mitsubishi Starion or a 1991 Ferrari Mondial. It's the sort of car which will always look handsome and executive and at no point does the car have any flaws large enough to turn off anyone.
As I read over the last paragraph, I realize that it's just a windy way of saying that the 8 is boring.
And because it's not daring, there's really nothing to save the tiny flaws it does have. In contrast, a car like the 1977 Chevrolet Corvette doesn't need to excuse its flaws (of which it has many) because the design is bold. BMW tried to marginalize the design of the 8, and it shows.
Like the Alfa article, I've annotated images of the 8 and have included them below. Do note that I only found out halfway through the exercise that the 8 in the phots is actually modified; thankfully, the modifications are minimal (mirrors, rear valance) and these are fantastic pictures otherwise. So, enjoy. The discussion continues below.
I really want the 8 to be an impressive car—and compared to something like a BMW Isetta, it is. But on its own—or compared to other GT vehicles like the Jaguar XJS or the Ferrari 275 GTB/4—the 8 is simply too clinical, and too dispassionate.
The second serious issue is the range of engines that BMW offered in the vehicle. Although many different displacements were offered over the years (a total of 7 engines were tested in the 8 at some point or another) only three primary configurations were available:
- a ~290hp V8 in the 840Ci,
- a ~325hp V12 in the 850i and 850Ci, and
- the brilliant 380hp V12 in the 850CSi.
The last of these engines was built by BMW Motorsport—in essence, it's the same engine (S70B56) that went into the McLaren F1. The version that went into the 8 made 380hp instead of the 635hp from the S70/3 powerplant in the McLaren.
While 380hp was actually quite impressive in 1991, the fact of the matter was that the 850CSi (in which the S70B56 was available) wasn't actually produced until 1996.1 In fact, the entire 850CSi was a patch to the uninspiring and formless 840Ci and 850Ci. Upon the release of hte 850CSI, a BMW executive was quoted as saying roughly that, "the 850CSi is the car that the 8 was supposed to have been when it was launched 5 years ago."
Don't get me wrong, the 850CSi is a great car—but it was an afterthought to demarginalize the already compromised 8. It certainly wasn't the supercar that it really should have been.
What's worse is that there were, at some point, plans to introduce a proper Motorsport version, the M8. Midway through development, the pennypinchers at BMW decided that it wouldn't be worthwhile to have an executive F40-killer and honestly, I don't really blame them. An M8 would have been a ridiculous proposition, but the fact that they really considered it makes the 850CSi just that more compromised.
Below are photographs of the prototype, which was crated after development instead of being placed into the BMW museum because it was, "far too rough" to be included.
The M8 is fantastically idiotic. But at least it's not bland.
And bland—completely bland—is what the 8 has turned out to be. Unless you fork out the megabucks (and we're talking at least $50k) for an 850CSi, the driving experience in the 8 is reportedly remote and unengaging. The engines have the sort of muted whirr of a luxury car's, and the suspension has enough give to smooth out any tiny bumps or curves in the road. These are great things for someone who wants to ignore driving, but I'm not that sort of person. And I suspect that neither are most of you.
Cars like the 3 and the 5 are phenomenally more composed and coherent than the 8. Some German engineers sat down and said, "this is the car we want, and this is how we'd like it," and then built the damned thing. The 8 is much more the product of arguments over purpose and committee meetings and longwinded design sessions to eek out precisely how quiet the engine needs to be to accomodate the focus groups. It's what happens when you try to force brilliance and timelessness from a form that can't support it. It's an attempt to compromise to perfection.
Unfortunately, compromise does not perfection make. But, I sure wish it did.
1 It seems I got that number wrong, as was graciously pointed out by reader B12, below. The 850CSi was sold from 1992 through 1996, although we only got it here in the US during the 1994 and 1995 model years.
So compared to other cars in its market, how did it perform?
Well, its primary competitors are the 600SL (or SL600, depending on the year) and the ... well, that's about it really. The Astron Martin DB7 was also in roughly the same category, although it came a bit later.
The 600SL is, from what I have read, fantastically more composed because it doesn't make any qualms about being a supercar. It's a luxury GT cruiser and—get this—a proper GT cruiser.
Unfortunatley, "Milkman" reportedly, it seems you've never driven one and you can't even get all your facts straight. The E31 was designed BEFORE the E36. The CSi version was launched at the end of 1992, not 1996. In many ways the design of the car was ahead of its time: The thin side rubbing strips of which you complain are now common on new cars. The 8 was indeed a technical tour de force and overengineered. The new bangalised BMWs are built to a price. Can you find stainless steel door sills on any new BMW?
Agreed—it seems I bungled the year on that one. It's been so long since I've written this that I'm not sure where I got that number. And you're right, I haven't driven one.
I'm not sure where you're getting the E36 reference from—did I mention that anywhere?
As for the thin rubbing strips...well, my 1985 Subaru had those too, so I'm not really sure what your point is.
B12 seems to have made the most educated of all responces antagonizing your opinionated fact finding compelations pre-AA.
Opinionated fact-finding? I like to think of the articles as "lovingly kissed with opinion."
Seriously, though, B12 does bring up much more coherent points than I see usually. Bravo!
Its clear you didn't do much if any research on this car, as most of your facts as well as your opinions are wrong. For example, the rear diffuser (what you call the "valance") is stock on the CSi, and contrary to your guess, the side skirts are stock on every model. The red and black interior is not "aftermarket" but was part of the the BMW Individual program (a little garish to my personal taste, but it shows you the variety which could be had). The CSi's wheels aren't directional either; only the throwing star covers are, which bolt on either side. The taillight turn signals are not orange on the stock model; they only illuminate orange. And you have completely ignored the changes through the model years -- my 1996 M73 engine 850Ci, with steptronic transmission, is radically different throughout from the earlier M70 engined models (except for the body panels), and is less than 1/2 second slower than the CSi! And rather than being dated, the design is timeless, not dated -- try driving one today, and see how many people stop to ask if that's the "new M3" or "new M6"! (and was penned years before the E36, to which you repeatedly compare it in the photos). I could go on, but the long and short of it is you are clearly unqualified to assert an "informed" opinion on these cars.
Wow. I wish I had enough spare time to create a website and article detailing why I _don't_ like a car.
I love this article. It is absolutely great to see someone commenting on something they know absolutely nothing about. By the way, the E36 part you mention in the annotations was the wheel and accessory handles for the steering wheel. If you knew anything about ANY BMW you would know those were the exact ones used as well in a 5 and 7 series. Hmmmm....seems those handles were put in every BMW ever made at a certain point in time. You were able to get those black trim strips on certain sport versions of a 2001 740iL.........The irony of this whole thing is that there are more factual flaws in your writing than what you point out about the 8 series. By the way...I am an owner of an "uninspriring" 840Ci.
Gents-
The reason I write articles like this is because the vast majority of pages on rare cars like the 8 are gushing pieces written by self-absorbed fanboys. Expectedly, I'm not going to have the same level of intimacy with the car in question than someone who spends much (most?) of their spare time dealing with one.
Sure, I've got a handful of the details wrong—but it doesn't change the fact that the 8 is an incoherently designed and ludicrously marketed car that didn't get the right fixes until halfway through its sale cycle.
I think you guys are missing the point.
--Dan
Dan -
I don't about other "rare cars" but before you go generalizing, come check out the E31 forum on Roadfly. It is the largest internet forum for U.S. 8-series owners and one of the most active 8-series forums in the world.
You might find an occasional "self-absorbed fanboy," but this a very rare exception to the rule. Read a few messages and you will see a community of friendly, down to earth owners who go out of their way to help one another enjoy ownership of these cars - whether it is sharing technical knowledge, helping locate parts, inspecting a car for a perspective buyer, etc.
Obviously, we love these cars and that's what the community is based on. It isn't a blind love, either. You will find every possible fault with these cars very well detailed, especially when an owner warns a perspective owner of what they should know before they buy one, which happens all the time.
It's a free country, so feel free to hate the car, but if you spend (most of?) your time dedicating an entire detailed review to express your own dislike of the car where (a) you get your facts wrong, (b) negatively stereotype the people who own them, and (c) do so without ever even having driven the car once, you betray your own self-absorbedness and ignorance, so don't be surprised by a little blowback.
Rey-
That's both fair and reasonable. I certainly expect that the 8-Series community is largely composed of people who have full understanding of the positives and limitations of their cars—and that's essentially true for all automotive communities. But similarly, the most vocal members of the community are typically very focused in their views (evidenced by many many other comments in this and my other articles) and it all comes off a little one-sided. These people certainly don't represent the majority, but they often speak on everyone's behalf with little intervention.
I also get a little irritated because I usually get my comment fields filled with lots of angry messages written by loyal forum-goers who pile onto my article after it gets posted somewhere with a fair amount of traffic. It's natural that those who object will be the ones who actually say something, but reading through a whole inbox of the same ranty angry comments gets me a little riled. So, I'm sorry about that.
Lastly, I should make it clear that I certainly don't hate the 8. It's certainly a good car, but it's not everything that BMW positioned it to be, and I don't think it's everything that its proponents claim it is. I'm not going to write about how wonderful every car is (because they aren't), and so there's got to be some sort of spectrum—I think that compared to all it's hyped to be, the 8 falls near the bottom end of that spectrum. Would I drive one over a Camry? Absolutely. But does that make it better at what it's supposed to be? No.
--Dan
investigative journalism usually requires the author to actually do some research on the subject.
Sadly you have done nothing more than a D Grade essay on a car. It seems like your school teacher has asked you to do an original discussion on something and rather than go out of your room into the 'field' you have simply Googled '8 Series' and looked just at the highest placed sites. Then you have used photographs without permission, annotated somebody's car, again without permission, and then reeled off a bunch of vaguely antagonistic statements about somethig you clearly know nothing about.
You have missed the point on several levels. Essentially, you will find that 99% of 8 Series owners couldn't care less about anything you have written. They have bought the car because they love the way it looks. Period. Each owner knows that it's not the qickest, best handling, most reliable, or cheapest to run car in the world. It's not even the prettiest, but it IS good looking AND fast enough to raise a few eyebrows....... and for the same money, nothing comes close.
I do hope you actually do get out one day and see one for real, or even better drive one. No email will ever make you change your mind it is clear. However, the 'real world' experience will make you feel foolish inside for posting this, ahem, article. Score 46/100. Could do better.
talltony-
This isn't an investigative journalism piece—it's an opinion piece.
And for an opinion piece, you guys sure are taking it personally. I fully understand that there are plenty of reasons that intelligent and informed people would buy 8-Series cars, as they aren't being neglected on used car lots or tossed to junkyards. The 8 is certainly an adequate and interesting car, and I'm fully aware of that.
There's no need to defend your reasons for owning an 8. I'm sure they're reasonable—I've owned terrible cars, and I've owned fantastic cars, and had plenty of good reasons for both sets.
But as I mentioned in an earlier comment, the 8 has flaws, and it isn't as well-executed as it should have been. Not all cars are fantastic—and no matter which I think aren't, there's an enthusiast group ready to pounce to tell me how I'm wrong.
Thanks
--Dan
not sure why I am posting again, but I just cant help myself. Nobody is angry with you here, at least I am not. There is nothing wrong in you stating your opinion, that is what the intraweb is for. The problem is that your 'article' is full of opinions that you can not back up, and this is why you are being 'pounced' on, as you put it. If you had actually owned, or at least driven, an 8 series then all your opinions would be 'fair game' because you could back them up with experience. I could write a piece on 'why the Aston Martin DB7 is rubbish' but I would be laughed of the webpage by people who actually own one, or have driven it. I have never even sat in one so I am NOT qualified to cast judgement on the car in the way you have with the 8 series. You are 100% right to say it is flawed, but you also do not actually know why, again because you have never had the 'experience'. It is you who are taking all this a bit personally.... I sit here typing away smug in the knowledge that I'll be driving home in my modified 8 series (with most 'flaws' removed due to the replacement of some key components). Could you please review the new Bugatti Veyron. I could do with a laugh :-)
Well after reading all this hoopla and being a member of the 8 roadfly forum it is quite entertaining to read the dislike if the 8 series. We think it is the best BMW body style made no new BMW car comes close. It has a race breed engine with executive GT looks. BEING AN OWNER of an 850i I alway get looks at gas stations with comments like is that a new BMW or very nice car ect...and it is not a cookies cutter stuff all you guys are driving. This car will continue to get the looks for many more years to come when all the other BMW are put to the junk yard.
My 2 cents,
E31PimP
talltony-
I think you're misunderstanding my last point—I'm only pointing out that there will always be someone who get upset or noisy about a critical article. It's a pain in my ass because I think it's polite to answer all but the most ridiculous of comments, but it's not something I get particularly upset about.
And having not driven an 8 is largely irrelevant—save for a handful of sentences near the end of the article (referenced from another source*), this isn't about how the cars drives. Firsthand experience with the car would certainly help legitimize what I'm saying, but this is a blog, and I'm not too concerned about that. I'm commenting on a lot of points that have nothing to do with the 8's road feel, and there's no need to drive the car to understand that.
* It's clear that I should have hung onto the references. Oops.
An interesting read. As an 8 series owner and fan I appreciate your taking the time to devote an article to a car that I love.
Your article seems to be based on your opinions more than on factual information so I cannot fault you on your your opinion. I can comment however that when it arrived, (and I was a six series fan before the 8 came along) itīs design was very daring for the car market of the time and a serious departure from the boxy BMW norm of that era.
I for one loved itīs design but itīs performance potential, class, and price were all over my head so I had to admire the car from afar.
Publically the E31 was rejected more often than it was accepted. This can be backed up statisticaly by BMW sales and BMW enthusiasts of the time, but that says very little as sales are usually related to the buyers market of the time and the target market for which the car was produced few but the super affluent could afford this class of car then even more so than now, plus serious variations and changes are usually boldly rejected. You made a small comment about the e36 in one of your photo comparisons. Ironically the e36 was genaraly loved because of itīs similarity to itīs bigger older brother some say itīs father the 8 series. The shape of the e36 gave the more common buyer access to design and technology cues that prior to the e36 era were financially out of reach. even expressed this in the sales brocure of the 1995 e36 photo borcure when I bought my 325i. Remembering that in that day and age only the semi wealthy to wealthy could afford a new $30,000.00 BMW. Not so today entry level cars are more accessable nowadays.
Alot of the e31 rejection too came from the fans dedicated to the Neue Klasse shapes which preceeded it. I remember hearing people say that it doesent look like a BMW.
With all that said. I am bias because it is one of my favorite car designs but not my favorite and the reasons are as you have pointed out the design from a visual appeal aspect has flaws. Most cars suffer from this and BMWīs seem to particularly suffer. They seem to be a compilation of beautiful ideas and design cues, (whether tradition or innovative) that donīt always blend well.
You probably would have offended less people with your article, (although I am not offended by it) by saying that most owners recognise the few flaws in the design that would have otherwise made this a perfect car visually with. But that would have required a bit more research on your part.
As a member of roadfly I know that most owners would change one or two things about there car to make it more visually appealing.
For me the flaws are:
a. The original air dam on the original 850i. Not ugly, actually racy and futuristic, but it did not age as well as the rest of the car.
b. the front quarter panel seems very bland these days without the side marker light of later, and Euro models or without the controversial V12 badge ad ons which most purist do not like, but thay actually add to the asthetics of the car to a non purists eye, and therefor in my opinion thay accent this otherwise boring area.
c. Wheel wells are enourmous. This is modernly recitified with bigger rims, but in the past it was addressed by adding a more meaty tire to a 17 inch rim. My favorite photo that shows this is one of a deep green 8 series in a leafy autumn colored backdrop. The car (an 840i I think), is sporting what seem to be 50īs series tires on a classic crosspoke deep dish rim. The tires fill the well better and make the car look fantastic. The photo can be found on e31 enthusiats pages, most roadflyers have seen it and even though they may not have pin pointed one of the reasons why as I have, they still love the photo.
There are other visual aspects that could have been done differently and as you pointed out the black trim seems dated on all but darker colored cars, the mirror issue is one of common debate too, but again that is based on changing times. Before the e36 M3, car mirrors were not even an issue when it came to the publics opinion of a cars design, so after a lot of personal deciding I opted for the CSI FACTORY mirrors as well.
Having said all this there are only a handfull of car designs on the general market that in my opinion were ever as good looking or better looking than the BMW e31. Itīs Intersting that you singled out the Ferrari 348, (which is another of my favorite designs) to compare it to the 850CSI.
When I bought my second e31 I was considering a 348 as well. My opinion was tossed almost 50/50 for the looks of both vehicles but the 348 for me was a bit prettier. However after test driving both cars it was very clear that the 850CSI was and is much more car for the money. If you have a GT and want an exotic then the Ferarri is the better choice for the money but for a practicle GT with almost exotic appeal there is in my opinion is no car on the market today that gives you more bang for buck. The beauty of the 850csi is that although itīs production run on the part of the company was not as successful as say the 600sl which was one of the cars few direct competitors. The 850csi still looks fresh and these days more attractive to me than the SL. I think one of the reasons for this is that there is no new 8 series to compare it to, and the six is just not as elegant and sexy.
I enjoyed your article, I can see your points and there are probably alot of people who will agree with you 100% but not me.
Thanks for taking the time out to write the article, I wish you had done a little more research so that you could have given a more factual accessment, but again itīs your opinion so how can it be wrong. Over all I think you agree the the e31 is a good car. It had potential to be one of the worlds greatest cars but it missed the mark, but in my opinion not by much!
AJ KEY
....Just curious, since you present yourself a automotive journalist,were your observations of the design aspect of the 8 series based on your perception of automotive design ending with the last production year or did you include all design aspects up to the year you wrote this internet post?...as with any work ofguess the final say is up to the individual and the final laugh will be years from now when large auction companies will be selling these cars in the same manner that they are selling the memories from the 60's and 70's today...RLS.